Q&A: A Convo With ‘At What Cost: Anatomy of Professional Wrestling’ Filmmaker Mark Chervinsky

Children screaming. The promoter shaking. Protests from the wildlife and game association.

“King” Shane Williams summons his opponent: a bear.

This isn’t 1978. It’s 2008 in Maryville, Tennessee.

The mesmerizing scene from At What Cost?: An Anatomy of Professional Wresting reflects the mission of the documentary, capturing and dissecting the emotion, logic and lunacy of professional wrestling.

Jake “The Snake” Roberts, “Diamond” Dallas Page, and other veterans reveal the highs and lows endured on the road, in the ring and away from the spotlight during the 95-minute film. Young grapplers learning their craft on the independent scene open up about why they sacrifice their bodies on a weekly basis for little to no reward.

Filmmaker Mark Chervinsky works as an editor on reality television shows such as The Biggest Loser, The Apprentice and Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew. Chervinsky’s last film, a documentary about a tiki artist called The Sophisticated Misfit, premiered at the Newport Beach Film Festival, where he won the Maverick Filmmaker Award.

At What Cost?: An Anatomy of Professional Wresting is now available to rent ($3.99 / 72-hour streaming period) or purchase ($9.99 to stream and download anytime) at: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/atwhatcost

Excerpts from the film can be found at: 

You can find Chervinsky on or .

Why did you make this documentary?

Chervinsky: “I was exposed to wrestling at a young age. My parents took me over to their friends’ house on a Sunday afternoon for WrestleMania. They had like Liberace, Mr. T, Billy Martin. I was hooked—I sat in front of that TV and loved watching King Kong Bundy set the record as far as pins go. From then until about WrestleMania IV, I would watch every Saturday and get all the videotapes.

Then I kinda got out of wrestling during junior high and high school as I got into sports and stuff. In film school, my roommate was really big into Goldberg and the Monday Night Wars. Then when I moved to Hollywood and started working on television shows, I ended up getting a gig on Wrestling Society X for MTV. It was cool—I cut up a few matches and got exposed to Teddy Hart and Seth Rollins when he was Tyler Black. These guys were doing amazing moves I had never seen. You know, if Greg the Hammer came off the second rope with an elbow drop, that was a big move.

They were cool guys and then I found out what they made. I was like, that’s not a lot of money for what you guys do. And those guys were actually getting paid pretty good because it was a TV taping. Then I worked for Hulk Hogan’s Championship Wrestling and couldn’t get over the fact that grown men were still in love with the sport that I watched as a kid. So I thought there was a documentary there.”

I remember Wrestling Society X. 

Chervinsky: “I was sad that it never took off. At the time, there were six nights of wrestling, and MTV decided, instead of Wednesday, to put it on Monday at 9:30 p.m. It’s a shame because there was some talent there. Kevin Kleinrock picked some good people. Colt Cabana did the dark matches as Matt Classic.”

It was cool and completely different from every other wrestling show out there.

Chervinsky: “Apparently, MTV never had so many hits on their website before. It crashed their website because all of these wrestling fans were going there for the content. But the problem was that the Nielsen boxes don’t pick up website traffic and the ratings were ‘eh.’ So they just let it die.”

Have you seen other pro wrestling documentaries like Beyond the Mat?

Chervinsky: “I had seen Beyond the Mat when it came out and I watched it right before starting At What Cost. That’s probably the benchmark for the best wrestling documentaries simply because they had all that access. Vince doesn’t want any of his people being talked to while they’re under contract because he doesn’t want anyone making money off his employees.

You know, I like that movie but I think it was unfair to Jake Roberts. That’s probably why he has never seen it.”

There are definitely similarities between your documentary and Beyond the Mat, but while Barry Blaustein had the permission to focus on the WWF, you covered the modern independent scene. Would you agree?

Chervinsky: “I would say that. You also get to see everything from the ground up, not just the toll it takes on your body from years of doing it. I mean, I wasn’t trying to make it similar, but there are only so many stories out there. I tried to get to know these up and comers, and I also really enjoyed talking with the veterans. Greg ‘The Hammer’ Valentine was huge for me because I used to put kids in the figure four at the playground. (laughs)”

(laughs) How did it feel talking to him?

Chervinsky: “I got a little nervous. It was in a bar in Vegas at like midnight during the Cauliflower Alley. I approached him with the same move I used to pick up my wife. (laughs) He was eating dinner with some friends and I had my back to him while drinking with a buddy. As I ordered another one, I said, ‘You need anything, Hammer?’ He said, ‘Nah, I’m good. Save your money.’ I said, ‘Well, can I take this seat?’ He said, ‘Sure.’ So I sat there for 20, 2 minutes before I found an opportunity to talk to him. And yeah, he was just super cool.”

So this film gave you the opportunity to meet your childhood heroes.

Chervinsky: “Yeah. I loved getting to know the independent guys, too. They’re obviously not doing it for the money because there isn’t much there. They’re just doing it for the passion and hoping maybe…what I didn’t get, and what I still don’t get, is these undersized guys trying to be professional wrestlers when they know full well that the only money out there is WWE. So they’re beating up their body and I don’t know what their end game is. Is it for those 50 people in the audience that night? I was never able to pinpoint that. I have to assume it’s for the adrenaline rush of performing.”

One of the most jarring parts of the film that illustrates your point is when Sigmon does the flying headbutt onto the championship belt and suffers a mild concussion. With everything we know from the Chris Benoit tragedy, it’s astonishing that he would put himself in such jeopardy.

Chervinsky: “Yeah, they didn’t think that one through. When I pulp fictioned that moment, that’s what I like to call it (laughs), between Sigmon and Kincaid, they wanted to do like a falcon arrow off the top rope, which probably would have hurt even worse. But they decided to do the flying headbutt. They didn’t think about if Kincaid held the belt up, it would have had some give instead of leaving it on his chest. Yeah, he paid the price, but it was nice of him to have a concussion for me while I was filming. (laughs)”

What was it like riding to the towns with Sigmon and “King” Shane Williams?

Chervinsky: “Riding with those guys was great. Shane told me stories like when he used to ride with ‘Hacksaw’ Jim Duggan and the reason why he had the 2×4. You know, when he was green, he was in some really violent area, but some guy is like, ‘hey man, you’ve gotta be tough. You should bring that 2×4 with you to the ring.’ I thought that was super cool how that happened organically. This last minute thing became part of his every day appearance.

I told these guys next time you’re on the road, let me know and I’ll fly out there to join you. So I did a five‐day road trip with them and was lucky enough to see them train some, I guess, aspiring talents. I mean, those guys were doing bumps with wallets in their pockets. (laughs) I was blown away by the lack of talent there.”

That’s one of the funniest parts in the film. Did you gain a deeper appreciation for wrestling during these moments?

Chervinsky: “Oh, absolutely. I had actually never seen wrestling live. My first match was Sigmon and Kincaid. I didn’t know anything about Kincaid and then all the sudden, I was like oh my God, this guy is amazing. You can really feel the energy from the crowd during those live matches. My dad would never have brought me to wrestling and I didn’t have a car at the time. (laughs)”

Another surreal part, coincidentally featuring Sigmon, is when he discussed taking steroids and how he’d probably take them again.

Chervinsky: “I didn’t even want to ask the question. He volunteered that information. Like, I had always wanted to ask, but it was only the second day we were riding together when he told me that. Then I felt bad about putting that in the movie. But my wife is a journalist and she was like, well, he told you so you’d be doing him a disservice if you don’t tell the world.

To have Chris Bell in there, too, balances it out because of his documentary Bigger, Stronger Faster. Everybody thinks all wrestlers are juiceheads because that was the 80s product so this was something I wanted to touch on. But Sigmon also opening up about the benefits of steroids lets you understand the appeal.”

Do you follow wrestling more closely after making the documentary?

Chervinsky: “I still don’t watch WWE because it’s too kid-friendly for me. My next-door neighbor is a huge fan. She was supposed to be in the movie, but she was diagnosed with cancer while we were filming. She’s a 54-year-old teacher and one of the inspirations for the movie. She loves wrestling and she loves her some Jericho.

I’ll be sitting there drinking scotch with her husband on a Friday night and I’ll hear her screaming at the television. I’ll catch whatever match she’s in to.  And from that aspect, because I get asked a lot if I’m a fan, I just don’t have the time to be a fan. There is so much product out there right now.”

So what’s the plan moving forward with At What Cost?

Chervinsky: “I have two movies I can make with the footage I’ve shot and some additional stuff. I’m not through with this, you know? I just sort of abandoned this movie because I could have sat there all day and tweaked it.

I have a lot of advice from the wrestlers so I’m thinking about a 20 or 30 minute So, You Want To Be a Pro Wrestler? I originally wanted to get Billy Corgan in the movie. Almighty Sheik does Corgan’s artwork for Smashing Pumpkins so I figured ok, I’ll put the camera on him, too. You know, throw him a bone. But everything that came out of the guy’s mouth was gold. His talk about the proper way to be a heel is amazing. You just feel like, ah, that makes so much sense.

But I would love to make a second film. I have all this extra footage. I put the camera on Paul London for three hours and brought him to tears. I have a whole section just on Andre the Giant. I have a special feature on Andy Kaufman. If wrestling fans would see this movie, I think they’d really dig it.”